#188 | Leading a Global PMO, leveraging AI & messy data with Mark Abdelmalek

What does it take to lead a global PMO in an increasingly AI-enabled world—especially when your biggest challenge isn't the technology, but the quality of the data behind it?

In this insightful episode, Fatimah is joined by Mark Abdelmalek, Head of PMO APAC at Herbert Smith Freehills Kramer, to explore how modern PMOs can embrace AI while staying focused on the fundamentals of leadership, governance, and organisational capability.

Drawing on more than 30 years of experience, Mark shares his journey from software developer to PMO leader, reflecting on why successful delivery has always been about people as much as technology. Together, they discuss the growing role of AI in project delivery, why organisations often underestimate the human side of change, and how capability uplift helps teams build confidence as new technologies emerge.

The conversation also explores one of the biggest barriers to successful AI adoption: data readiness. Mark explains why clean, accessible, and well-governed data is the foundation for meaningful AI outcomes, and shares a practical example of using Microsoft Copilot to transform years of PMO lessons learned into a searchable knowledge resource—helping teams avoid repeating mistakes and continuously improve delivery.

Finally, they discuss leading PMOs across global organisations, working effectively with diverse stakeholders, keeping governance practical, and the lessons Mark has learned through his involvement with the PMO Global Awards.

If you're leading projects, building PMO capability, or preparing your organisation for AI-enabled transformation, this episode offers practical insights into how people, governance, and technology come together to drive better delivery.

In this episode, we cover:

2:34  From Developer to Project Leader
5:22  AI Anxiety & Learning Mindset
13:23  Data Readiness for AI Transformation
17:56  Building an AI Lessons Learned Agent
31:02  Leading Projects Across APAC Remotely

…and more.

🎧 Tune in for practical insights on leading PMOs through the next generation of delivery.

Transcript

Welcome And A Note Of Support

Fatimah Abbouchi 0:00

You're listening to Agile Ideas the podcast, hosted by Fatimah Abbouchi. For anyone listening out there not having a good day, please know there is help out there. Hi everyone and welcome back to another episode of Agile Ideas. I'm Fatimah, CEO and AMO, mental health ambassador, and your host. On today's episode, we are talking to Mark Abdelmalek. Mark is currently the head of PMO Asia Pacific and a global law firm, Herbert Smith Free Hills Kramer, based in Sydney, with 30 years of experience. Mark has been part of the PMO Global Awards Judging Committee for 2003, 2024, and 25. Prior to his current role at HSF Kramer, Mark held key positions in leading organisations where he played a pivotal role in leading projects, optimising project management processes, and implementing best practice. Mark also volunteers on several community boards in the homeless and aged care area. Mark and I met as he was a speaker on a panel that we hosted for the PMO leader a few years ago. And he had just some really great insights. And I thought, wouldn't it be great to learn more about Mark and what he's been doing, and in particular running a global PMO. So please join me in welcoming Mark to the show. Mark, welcome to the show.

Mark Abdelmalek 1:24

Thanks Fatimah, It's it's great to be here.

Fatimah Abbouchi 1:27

It's um a long time coming.

Mark Abdelmalek 1:30

I know we've had a had a few attempts at this, so um it's really great that we've um yeah, that that we've kind of made it this time, and I'm looking forward to to catching up and chatting.

Fatimah Abbouchi 1:40

Yeah, sounds good. I think um I was saying in in your bio uh as I was introducing you just before, that we know we came across each other by accident through the PMO leader where you were one of our panelists, which is crazy because you've been in the PMO project management leadership space for 30 years. You um we know you know a lot of our mutual contacts. Um you were a judge um many for three years in a row around PMOs as well. So um it is small, but not that small. So um it's good to be here and dive into some of your background. So I really wanted to just give the audience a little bit more context on sort of how you came to be where you were you built a 30-year career across all of these domains. What first drew you to project management in general and sort of what where did your career start? So maybe just give us a quick background about sort of how you get to where you are today, where it started.

From Developer To Project Leader

Fatimah Abbouchi 2:34

Were you an accidental project manager?

Mark Abdelmalek 2:36

Um I started my life as a developer, um, believe it or not. So um I did kind of uh computer information systems at New South and I landed in the banks um coding and building um IVR systems, funnily enough. So, you know, press one to do this, press two to do that. I started my life kind of um at St. George Bank, and when Bpay was being introduced, and we rebuilt their IVR system. So that's where I started my life as a developer, and I did that from the mid-90s right up to kind of the early 2000s, and then computers and coding was moving so quickly, um, and the languages were changing really quickly, and I was just finding it really hard to keep up with the fast pace of the languages and coding, and you know, new kids are coming out of uni and with the latest languages. And I I was the I was the last year at uni to do COBOL. Um, so that might kind of give you a bit of an idea. Um, so I learned COBOL at uni, and then you know, C and C and HTML and all that stuff just started coming in at that time. And yeah, I was finding it really hard to keep up. So I thought, and I wasn't enjoying it, so I stopped enjoying it, and that was a real sign for me that this isn't you know right for me. So I moved into team management around that time and started managing teams of developers and teams of coders, and I really enjoyed that. I really enjoyed that people interaction, kind of steering a team, guiding a team, and that kind of then moved into project management. Um gradually I made that step from being a team manager of developers to running projects, and that's where I really found my enjoyment. I just loved that um so I still like building stuff and producing stuff. Um, so being responsible for a project and a group of people that produces an output at the end was very satisfying for me, and that's kind of my evolution into project management.

Fatimah Abbouchi 4:59

It's so interesting because um a lot of the times people fall into projects, they don't realise even what the I didn't even know what the definition of a project was. It it in a lot of organizations still, operational teams work on projects all the time, and they probably don't even realize it. So it sounds like very similar um in terms of how it started. Obviously, that takes us a way back in terms of some of some of that.

AI Anxiety And Learning Mindset

Fatimah Abbouchi 5:22

I um we're gonna talk about a bit about AI, um especially because I'm curious about sort of what's happening in the landscape of in the legal space. But um, I just I just have a sort of side question of when we think about what's happening right now with AI, it's really commoditizing development engineering. Like what what's your thoughts on that? Like being a ex-developer coda.

Mark Abdelmalek 5:44

Yeah, look, I say to a lot of people, I feel obviously there's a lot of hype about what's happening at the moment and the pace that stuff is changing. And a lot of people come and kind of speak to me and asking me about their what should I tell the kids to study, or what should I, you know, how should I direct my kids or position them and things like that. And to me, it's no different to we grew up in the time where computers were being introduced into work environments, and it was the same, they're going to take our jobs, everyone's gonna be out of work, and all of that fee was happening. But the people that progressed were the people that knew how to use computers, were the people that learned how to use email and word and outlook um and all those things because that's you then became an asset because you knew how to use those tools. And so that's the same principle that I think we should apply now. Um learn how to use these tools, um, and get familiar and comfortable with these tools, and then you'll be an asset to wherever you are or whatever you're doing because you know how to use those tools. Um, that's how I try to put people at ease because there is a lot of fear in the workplace about are we going to lose our jobs, uh you know, everything gonna be automated and all of this. And I just say to my my team and the people around me, learn how to use the tools, you know, and and you'll become an asset and you'll become valuable, um, and you'll be able to show and demonstrate you're valuable, and you'll become more efficient, and you can work smarter, not harder, da da da, all of those great things. So that's um the mindset that I try to kind of give my team, and um so we can move on and and get in there, and it's exciting at the same time. Um the pace is fast and it's changing quickly, but it's exciting at the same time, and if you kind of approach it from a learning um kind of um aspect or perspective, you know, get get on the train, get on that journey, and and everything's gonna be okay. Um everything's gonna be all right.

Fatimah Abbouchi 8:04

It's so interesting. As I as I've heard you know, a lot of um guests on different podcasts, and they talk about it's not about losing. I think you're right, there's a fear that people are losing their jobs. And look, by all means, there absolutely is job losses happening. But I think it's um adapting. Um, so a lot of organizations we're working with, we see them, they're not necessarily eliminating roles completely, but they're reframing them. And as you said, one of the things that's really prominent is learn how to use the tool, the tech, whatever it is. It's the same when there was this whole sort of wave of agile. Learn to be agile and learn how to do agile and learn to understand that space so that you are still in that sort of ecosystem. And the same thing is applying now with AI, where if you're not using the tools, you'll you will be replaced by someone who does know how to use the tools, especially because organizations want to you know try to increase productivity and all those things. So um you're absolutely right. It is a it is a pace of change at the moment, and it's becoming more critical.

Change Fails Without The People

Fatimah Abbouchi 9:04

And I guess as as an organization and being in many organizations that I know you have worked in, um, undertaking such a significant type of change, where do you see that organizations typically underestimate the complexity of change?

Mark Abdelmalek 9:22

It's you know, and I know you touch on this in kind of your work and what you do, but PMO and change are becoming even more glued together. Those principles the PMO principles and the change management principles are becoming even more tightly knit. Um, I come from uh ProSci ADCA kind of background training, you know, whatever you want to call it. And uh when I learned that stuff and when I did that course, it was like a whole new world opened to me, and I could really see how important it was. And so uh I think it's the people side that's underestimated, it's the people side of that change. You can have the best technology and you can implement the best technology and the best tools, but if the people aren't on that journey, if they aren't part of that um change, it it's not going to be successful and it won't be adopted, it won't be used. Um and you'll fail basically. And so really taking people on that journey, uplifting the capability of your people as well as part of that process. So I I feel I'm really lucky where I am at the moment. Um, there's a lot being invested into training, into different co-pilot courses, into understanding what agents are, how they work, how you can build agents kind of with the tools that we have at our fingertips already, um, all this kind of stuff. And it's great because they're uplifting everyone's capability, everyone's got a better understanding that disperses the fear that's out there about AI and about these tools, and then it starts just to become second nature and embedded into the way you work, and that's really um I think where the focus needs to be. And you talk about capability um as well in a lot of work you do, and and I think that's a key part. You know, what is the capability of your workforce? And we are at a time where you need to invest and uplift that capability in that AI space so people feel comfortable with using those tools, um, and the result is everyone becomes more efficient, more productive, and so on.

Fatimah Abbouchi 11:59

And and not just the um, as you said, not just the team, but the the the leaders, um managers, executives as well, because they're the ones that often, you know, are too busy to understand this space, and then so forth, therefore they are unable to really um put themselves in the perspective of the teams who are they need to uplift, but you need to also understand what you're requesting because we know that when we think about project failure and um challenges in organizations that are trying to roll these things out, it's not usually just a process problem, it's a people problem. Um, but there's a whole other side of it. So I think you're right, uplifting capability, not only for your team, but also for your leaders, is essential because otherwise, how can the change stick?

Mark Abdelmalek 12:41

That's right. And and one of the core principles of change is where that message comes from. So if that message is coming from the most senior stakeholder or people in your organization, you've got a higher chance of being successful. So I think you touched on a really key thing. So those uh people, those most senior people also need to be uplifted in their capability, in their skill, in their comfort, so they can talk about these things to the organizations in all the forums that they have, because then it will flow down to the to the rest of the company. So, yeah, I think that's a really key point that you've touched

Data Readiness For AI Transformation

Mark Abdelmalek 13:23

on.

Fatimah Abbouchi 13:23

You know what's interesting as well is I think about it, um, one of the other things that, and I and I will move away from AI um in a minute, but one of the other things that's really interesting is a lot of um organizations I've been speaking to, we we obviously connected about some of the work that your um organization is doing around data. Essential for an AI in practice transformation is understanding that that data landscape and really being able to make sure the right information is in the right place, in the right way, it's cleansed, all of those sorts of things. So I know that you know you're doing some really great work there from from what I'm from what I and you spoke about. But in addition to that, I think that one of the other challenges is there's a lot of noise when it comes to um AI and delivery and transformation and tools. And so I'm kind of curious, your team and and some of the work your your peers have done has been really emphasizing the focus on data. Can you tell us a little bit about data and the focus on data? Because I know you're you're undertaking some really large work in that space, and it's really good to see.

Mark Abdelmalek 14:30

Yeah, I think what we learned very early on, and I mean being a law firm, data is your one of your key assets. Um, really any organization, but especially at a law firm, it's all about, you know, I don't want to simplify it too much, but document production, what's in those documents, and and so on. Um, someone once said a law firm is you know a glamorized document production factory because we're producing, you know, all this output, but it's not exciting, it didn't happen. So very early on, we knew that that's where our kind of IP and assets are. And to implement any of this stuff, the first question everyone asks is oh, can we access this data? Can we access this data? Or where's this data, or where's that data? So very early on, there was a realization that to get the benefit out of any of this tech or any of these tools, as you said, that your data needs to be organized so it's easily accessible, so there's security around how you access it, who accesses it, um, what you allow access to and don't allow access to, and so on and so on. So I think because of the nature of our business, we had that realization very early. So uh we kicked off that piece of work um to start organizing our data. So when we get to kind of where we are now, and everyone's saying, Can we just have this tool? Can we implement this tool? And we want this tool, our data's starting to get a bit more organized. It's a journey, and it's not something that happens like in six months or 12 months. It really does take um a lot of time to get it in uh a good state, then to be able to access it, then defining people with the roles that can keep it in an orderly way, and so on, and so on. So it really is a journey, but we realize that early on, and we're kind of in the middle of that journey, so that's really um helping us. And I think partly it's because of the nature of our business. Um we realised um that's where a lot of our value is, so we need to get it in order.

Fatimah Abbouchi 16:52

Business business data, right, is essential for any organization and so so much more relevant for this um sort of legal space. It's so interesting. Um, one of the things that uh you know we touch on briefly is around how important the data is. And if you think about it, to bring in um some of these AI agents and AI tools and just that whole layer of you can spend the most money you want on and Claude and all these fancy things, but if they those tools don't have the right inputs of information, the data, um, it makes it really hummed. And if you think about most organizations, we see their data dispersed in their HRA system and their payroll system and their you know their um IT systems, and and it's everywhere. So I mean tools monopoly. And so the tools monopoly, you haven't really needed to organize your data and some kind of you know your silos. Um, it's very hummed. And even to do reporting and roll that up is really, really hummed. So the fact that you're you're you're doing that, it's a really good thing for organizations to stump with as a foundation for their you know anyoma transformation. So I think that's great, and I think it's so essential.

Building An AI Lessons Learned Agent

Fatimah Abbouchi 17:56

When we think about projects though, and I want to talk about a very important piece of data in projects, and that is lessons learned. Um, this is so critical, and I don't know how people neglect it. Sometimes they spend time going into rooms and spending hours divulging the biggest challenges and the biggest lessons, and then nothing happens with it. Now, you have done something really interesting in AI and lessons learned. So talk us through that and why you decided to solve for a problem that you have.

Mark Abdelmalek 18:23

Yeah, I've got a big smile on my face because this week I'm actually doing the lessons learned for Al Dagora implementation. Um, so we've just finished the survey and I'm compiling the results to present next week. But yes, it it's a common problem. Um, a lot of PMOs have they have this great knowledge source in lessons learned, but it's distributed everywhere in old project folders on people's networks. So what I've done is I used Copilot and the Copilot Agent Um feature to build an agent that basically its knowledge source is like 20 lessons learned documents from the past five years and made that available on the PMO intranet so people can just go in and interact with that agent and ask it any question about a type of project or a specific project or just in general what's worked well and what hasn't worked well across projects in the last five years at the firm. So it's been really um valuable because it was a really easy and novel way to kind of get all that information into one space and have it easily accessible. And then anytime there's a new project, um, lessons learnt, you just add that knowledge source to the agent. So it was um it solved a kind of a I won't say it's a big problem, but it solved a problem that a lot of um PMOs have, but very simply. You I presented um at a round table um late last year, and just how simple it was, it was just you know, it was just crazy, and the value it gives a PMO with having that information at your fingertips or an organization at your fingertips. Um it was a great little um it was a great little example or of AI and it gave me something to kind of get my fingers into to play with AI and test it and demonstrate what you could do to it with it. So um yeah, it was a good little experiment.

Fatimah Abbouchi 20:41

I like it. I might have to try that myself. It's a really um it's really um about experimenting, right? So what you just demonstrated there and and PMO leaders should really lead from the front, and you just experimented with something that obviously within the guardrails of the the um settings of your organization. And just gave it a go and then you've developed something that's useful. It's funny that you know in in change management, um, if I look back to change management, some of the courses, there was a course where I referenced where the change sort of trainer talked about this was about maybe seven years ago, having a repository of lessons learned that they had to scan and do manually, and it took a lot of effort. And now, you know, you've you're able to create that so easily and it would just add value to stakeholders and probably save costs because um funny story, previous um previous organization banking. I found out that one of the teams had spent the exact same amount of money for a strategy paper. That they had spent the exact same amount of money on the strategy, same strategy paper the year before. They'd spent the money twice. If they had this lessons learned feature, they might have identified that they attempted it and it didn't lead to where they needed. So that's pretty good. And then what's the uptake been like? Have you seen a lot of people using it?

Mark Abdelmalek 21:57

Yeah, it it has been. And but historically, what used to happen. And people used to come and tap me on the shoulder and say, Oh Mark, I'm about to start a move project. Um, do you have lessons learned from the previous move project? So I'd flick them, you know, the latest or the last move project. And now I can just say there's an agent, just go and ask the agent. It's got the last five, the knowledge of the last five lessons learned. And if you specifically say to the agent, I'm interested in moves, office moves, um, it will focus on those documents and give you the lessons learned, what worked well, what didn't, from those specific projects. So it just became more efficient for me, too, because previously I'd have to go look for them, find where they are, that specific project that they've asked for, then send it to them, and it was only one source. Now they've got access to much richer, and it's easier for me from uh management and perspective in finding the stuff.

Fatimah Abbouchi 23:01

Um and one of the problems um that you know most organisations have with PMOs, and I talked about this in the past, but the rolling door of PMO leaders. So if you left tomorrow, that's right, you know, you didn't have this in place and no one knew about it again, unless you knew about the previous five, six, whatever it was, no one else would know. And so that institutional knowledge leaves with you, which is why build capability in the organization, not about the individuals. Um really somebody. So let's move away from AMI now because we could have lots of lots of working

Working With Lawyers Without The Jargon

Fatimah Abbouchi 23:31

about that. And look, I definitely want to touch on more on that later. But for now, I wanted to ask you a question I'm curious about. You've worked in lots of organizations and lots of different um operational teams, no doubt, some that haven't project managers by trade. What surprised you most about working with lawyers?

Mark Abdelmalek 23:50

Um firstly, just how approachable they are, if you have this perception um, you know, about lawyers and um their personality types and that. And I was actually just having this conversation yesterday with someone. Um, and you know, they're lovely people, and I've never really had a problem with you know uh with um working with them and and and they're really great and lovely. So that was the first thing um that surprised me. That um, you know, uh judgment that people have um about them. I don't know if it comes from TV shows or what.

Fatimah Abbouchi 24:26

Um let me guess, you didn't have to pay pay any fees. That that's a value add.

Mark Abdelmalek 24:33

Um so so yeah, and look, obviously, this environment's a little different because um the priority is their clients and their client work. Um so I've got to be really cognizant of that um when I'm doing project work. So the our PMO is focused on strategy um implementation internally at the firm. So uh we're kind of focused on those type of projects. Um and so we're not client-facing or anything, our clients are internal. And so we when we're dealing with them, we always have to have in our mind their number one priority is their client work. Um, so when we're approaching them for, you know, when we're gathering requirements or we need to speak to them to gather requirements or um do analysis or anything like that, uh, we have to be very prepared, be very succinct, know what we're going in for, um, and not waste their time because we need to allow them to focus on their clients and not distract them from that. So it was just being really cognizant of that approach um and that environment here and not to bamboozle them with you know all our great um acronyms and um all that stuff that we deal with. That stuff's all great and important to us, but you know, we really have to keep it simple when we're dealing with them, tell them exactly what we want from them, when we want them to do it, and and they'll do it. They're very you know happy to do it, but we've got to keep it simple and and direct um for them because as I said, their priority is the clients and the client work. Um, and we've got to be careful not to become a distraction to that by you know overcommunicating what we're doing on these projects and all this information. So really do keep it simple, our interaction simple, and we streamline um our processes and our approach, um, cognizant that their priority is their clients and their client work.

Fatimah Abbouchi 26:55

It's so interesting, um, because uh yeah, people don't realise that like law firms are partnership model businesses and they have to prioritize their client relationships and their timelines and they have other timelines. You can't tell them, no, you've got to adjust what you're doing because I need you, you know, your input. So it doesn't mean you would need your project managers and your um and your your PMO to be very adaptive to that environment, not only to the stakeholder, your the your lawyers, but also to the environment. So, how do you how do you manage the the pivot that's necessary, especially as things um evolve and you are getting you will get naturally pushback when their climate priorities come about? So, how do you plan for that and adjust for that?

Mark Abdelmalek 27:37

Yeah, look, you can't really plan for it. You you've got to be empathetic, um, you've got to put yourself in their shoes so you understand what's going on in in their environment. Um, and then you work, you work around it. You you make it work, you find alternatives. Um, if that partner, you know, you can't access them because they've got a matter and it's going to court or hearing or something, or you find someone else within that practice group, maybe that you can talk to or work with. Um, so you do really got to kind of think on your feet and be um small agile, you know, in the way you work, um, and be able to pivot to um uh adapt to what's going on, and like I said, be empathetic to their environment and what's happening in their environment. So um sometimes you know we can't access a partner or we're waiting on um someone to review our requirements document, but we're just not progressing. Well, then I say to the team, okay, is there someone else we can talk to? Um, is there another way we can do it to try and keep things moving as well? Communicating, we talked about change early on, and it's a real important um part of projects. And a lot of the time there's a need for us to communicate to them about what we're doing or a change that's coming. And what we try to do in this environment, we try to find existing channels of communications and embed our messages in those channels, and so um we're not creating new communications and new channels to overwhelm them with information, and they're bombarded with too many sources of information coming from all different directions. And so it's about finding those pathways to them that already exist and channeling into those, you know, whether it's practice group meetings that are already happening, you know, we'll go along and maybe present at one of those practice group meetings, or it's a newsletter that the managing partner puts out, you know, we'll put a little blurb in that newsletter about a change that's coming up. Um so we'll try to do tactics like that from the change perspective to use existing channels to get our message out. Um that's about working smart in that way and understanding the environment and being empathetic to what's going on kind of in their world.

Fatimah Abbouchi 30:14

I think your change management background would have a big part to play in knowing that because I feel like this is a common blind spot for a lot of PMOs. Um I've seen some conversely PMOs come in who expect it, you know, information or communication to be a certain way. I can I can put my hand up and say early on in my career I thought you know the PMO communications was the be all end all most important. And I had to have a few project managers and program directors I work with really early on when I didn't know what I was doing, humble me and help me understand the landscape of things. So I think it's really productive to be adaptable and as you said, agile in the way of um thinking and doing. And um, this is not a one-size-fits-all, which yeah, going from one PMO in one organization to another. Don't try to cookie cutter what you did there just because it worked, because

Leading Projects Across APAC Remotely

Fatimah Abbouchi 31:02

it doesn't. Um I want to I want to take a turn a little bit to something that is unique in the sense that not not a lot of um PMOs get to do, but running a global PMO is one that covers so many regions. I see in some of this firsthand of the challenges and the opportunities it created. Help those that maybe listening now who are either aspiring to be in that type of role down the line, or maybe project and professionals that work with global PMO manage. Tell us tell us a little bit more about what does leading an Asia Pacific PMO actually mean and how do you manage that? I assume you don't have you know 50 team members across all of Asia Pacific. So talk us through what does that look like?

Mark Abdelmalek 31:44

Yeah, I used to have it's evolved over the six or seven years that I've been here. I used to have a couple of people on the ground in Asia. Um, so that was really helpful and great because having people on the ground, you know, they have a different perspective, then they can give you a sense and feel of um the mood, the environment that's going on. They can walk to people's offices and knock on the door and have you know those direct conversations and uh which are really important. So um I've lost those two people that I had on the ground um over the years. Um they've moved into other teams and and kind of not been replaced. So having a network of people I can reach out to in those areas, that that's really helpful. Um, and there being your conduit to kind of what's going on the ground. Um and it's really as in anywhere, it's just about that relationship building. Um, so having to work a little bit harder in now building relationships with key contacts in those areas or in those offices and them knowing we're available to assist them. My team, remotely from Australia, worked on a Tokyo and Bangkok office relocation um in the past six months. Um I had a pro the project manager was based here, and the comms and change manager was based here. But we had key contacts on the ground there that we were working with that could help us with you know reviewing our comms because culturally um those those just those two offices culturally are very different. Um, the Japanese you know culture, very different to the Bangkok office and and that environment in what you can say, how you say it, and things like that. So I think it's having that network and relationship building is really important. Um, if you are able to have people on the ground, you know, that's a bonus. But if you don't, you you need to build relationships and connect with people on the ground. Um, and I've got a great counterpart in the UK and Europe that um we work closely together, um, but they manage most of the projects that occur in those regions. But again, it's having that relationship with that person, um, and we're you know connected really well together and you know keep each other in the loop about what's going on in our in our regions and then globally um what's going on as well because it helps each of our teams um that are interested in other work that's going on, transferring between areas and things like that. It opens up opportunities to the team. Um, so all of those things are really important. So and you've got to be cognizant of the you know, sometimes the extended hours that uh and those pressures that it puts um on you and the team. So work-life balance is really important. Um and I think one of the great things we have in our environment is the agility um to adjust our working hours based on the type of project we're working on. Um, so that's been really important as well. And I give that flexibility to the team because I know sometimes they're on evening calls, and depending on the projects, it could be two or three nights uh a week. Um so having the ability to work in a more agile way, too, really helps and supports the team in getting that done.

Fatimah Abbouchi 35:39

It's um very relevant and timely because obviously with the over the last few years with everyone remote working and all those made it a lot more easier. Um it's also super relevant that people I think underestimate what it takes to run a global PMO, whether it's a regional or a, like you said, a global that covers small regions. And I think something that people find really interesting is you know, do you um do you dictate how they run projects in their regions, knowing that they've got different cultures, different norms, different ways of working? Do you do you or do you just provide some central guardrails for good governance measures that helps you to roll up? Like, do you have anything that you could share that maybe articulates how that particularly even looking at simple things like delivery methodology

Guardrails, Templates, And A Flexible Toolkit

Fatimah Abbouchi 36:27

and things like that? How does that work in in an organization that has a global PMO?

Mark Abdelmalek 36:31

Yeah, we've and like I said, because the the focus is really the clients and client work. So our methodology, our processes are very um, we keep it simple and as streamlined as possible. So we've got guardrails, we've got um our templates, and we don't put all our templates up on the intranet because that would be overwhelming as well. So we've got some key templates in kind of each of the gates or phases that we've made available um on our intranet site. And basically a lot of people come to us and say, Oh Mark, I'm starting a project, um, I need help with this, I need help with that. So we point them to the intranet and we say, Look, this is a great document. The project information document start with that, that will get you started. So we've got guardrails basically, in guide guidelines in place and templates that are available for them to use. And then we've got in the background a bigger bag of tools that I call it, and we dip into that depending on the nature of the project, and we adjust what we do based on the size of the project, um, what that project is, into what we apply and use from that toolkit. Um and so that's kind of how I describe it to the team and um what we follow. So we've got some high-level guidelines that we follow, but we've got a bigger bag that we can dip into depending on what we're working on and what we need to do.

Fatimah Abbouchi 38:17

Well, basically across between like the self-serve element that you mentioned, where their teams can uh either request help and source as opposed to being told you must follow all these things, and then some generic general guardrails that are you know organizational-wide. So that that will help, especially because when you're depending on the size of your team, you you you can't be across every detail. And I think people think when you hear global PMO or a regional PMO that um you're across every aspect of every project, and you just can't do that because you don't have the capacity or the bandwidth, or even probably the desire to be honest, that would drive me mental to be involved in every project.

Mark Abdelmalek 38:52

Yeah, that's right. And a part of kind of what we do is capability uplift, and it's a part that I really enjoy. So uh we've got a PM 101 course um that we'll run for different departments um or even groups that are about to start a project. Sorry, something just popped up on my screen. Um and so yeah, we offer that help and we do a change, we do a change management 101 and we do a project management 101. So we're really helping uplift that capability across the firm, as you said, to give the people the ability to run their own projects within their departments, um, if they're little projects and things like that. Um so yeah, that's a a part of our offering is that kind of capability uplift as well.

Fatimah Abbouchi 39:46

Sounds

What Great PMOs Do Differently

Fatimah Abbouchi 39:47

good. And just rounding out one of the other sort of quite questions that came to my mind, you've been a judge with the PMO Global Awards for many years. Are you a judge again this year?

Mark Abdelmalek 39:56

I'm not this year. I've I've got a lot on my plate this year, um, and I've just decided that I need to give a couple of those things a a break. So I'm involved in a few boards outside of work, um, voluntary stuff that I do, and they've all kind of got major projects happening on this year, and it's really taking all my spare time outside of work, and so I thought I'm just gonna give that a break this year so I can kind of focus on some of that volunteer work that I'm doing.

Fatimah Abbouchi 40:29

Yeah, I I I was reading about that. Um, it's it's great to see um you know leaders doing work outside of their day job to provide those skills to. I know you do work with the homeless and the aged care, and I think it's really rewarding and and really commemorable to do that. So understandable, but on that note, I do want to ask, in the past three years, where you were a judge, what patterns did you see in the organizations that you were sort of reviewing and and assessing that really truly stood out for you? I know that many years ago when I did it, I'm sure things have changed now. So, like, what stood out for you in the last three years? Was there anything that really stood out that was different or unique?

Mark Abdelmalek 41:11

Um, first of all, I'd say I really love doing that um judging. It just really excites me seeing kind of what these big organizations um are doing and how they're um applying project management and uplifting their organization. So I I really enjoyed um doing it, but I think what I've um noticed is the the desire and the move to adopt best practice. So the the value ring um work that that's being done um and I can see a lot of that coming through um connecting with uh the PMI um group and and and um those groups I can see a lot of those organizations, um it's really good. They're tapping into um all of these industry um best practice groups um or just even industry groups that are helping them uplift the capability within their organization. Um and yeah, that's kind of really stood out to me. And it's becoming so much more global, or accessible probably is the right word.

Fatimah Abbouchi 42:30

Yeah.

Mark Abdelmalek 42:30

Um the the PMI and the work that it's doing and all of the great standards and tools are becoming more accessible and and more global as people get better connected, you know, on the internet. Um and so I really see that coming out in a lot of the presentations that I was reviewing in the last couple of years.

Fatimah Abbouchi 42:54

It is really insightful seeing what they submit. They put in, I don't know if you in your series you get videos where they sort of there were some that submitted videos that took us through their journey, some that had their um, you know, their heads of or general managers talk about how amazing their PMO is. It's sort of like, you know, I watched the American Music Awards recently. It's like equivalent of that for project. It's really, yeah, it is really insightful. And sometimes you you you see things, I'm sure you've came across things and went, oh, that's a good idea, and like it really just kind of inspires some ideas and also helps you realize that we're all trying to do the same thing in a different way for the context of the industry, the environment, and the country, which is also quite fascinating. So yeah, good work. Um, I'm sure they'll miss you have not having you there this year, but maybe next year. Um, we're almost at the end of our time today. Um, my last question for you is there anything else that you would like to share with our listeners? A call to action, a piece of advice, or a question to ponder?

Community, Conferences, And Closing Thoughts

Mark Abdelmalek 43:55

Um, I'd just like I'd just say really, there's so much valuable information out there, and there's so many great groups, um podcasts and PMO conferences and things that I know you and the team are involved in, the PMO leader one, which is coming up um this year. I've really in the last few years, I've really loved, I think, connecting and immersing myself a bit more into that world. Um, and I've really, as well as kind of contributing to some of those things, I've learned so much from um attending and being in those environments. So I'd really encourage everyone to, you know, whether it's the PMI um group or the global um PMO group or the PMO leader um group and conference coming up, your podcasts, um there's so much valuable information out there and and and yeah, connect connect into some of those things and you really learn a lot from from everyone and what everyone's doing.

Fatimah Abbouchi 45:07

It's um it's uh really relevant because you're right, the the PMO leader, which you did speak out, um, is coming up and just a shameless plug. The conference is on October, um, October the 7th? It's our sixth annual conference. Um, and we are actually open for speakers now, and we are also open for speakers globally, and the conference is um 18 hours of continuous content free, no change. Thanks to our sponsors. So um look forward to seeing you there again. Looking forward to it. We definitely need to get you back. And um, for those that are listening, if they want to connect with you, LinkedIn is the best place.

Mark Abdelmalek 45:44

Yep, LinkedIn.

Fatimah Abbouchi 45:45

Amazing. Thank you, Mark. I really appreciate your time and um the value that you've shared today with our listeners. I'm sure they're going to get a lot of ideas, especially a lot of people going and playing around and experimenting with Copilot.

Mark Abdelmalek 45:56

Thanks for team up.

How To Support The Show

Fatimah Abbouchi 45:58

Thank you so much for listening to this podcast. Please share this with someone or rate it if you enjoyed it. Don't forget to follow us on social media and to stay up to date with all things agile ideas. Go to our website, www.agile managementoffice.com. I hope you've been able to learn, feel, or be inspired today. Until next time, what are your agile ideas?