#166 | What's the Cost of Not Delegating? With Carmen Williams

What if the biggest thing holding your business back isn’t lack of time—but your reluctance to let go?

In this empowering new episode, Fatimah is joined by Carmen Williams, Director of Global Teams, who shares how delegation became the most transformational move in her business journey. From her early days as a scientist to running a thriving remote team of over 100 virtual assistants across South Africa and the Philippines, Carmen’s story is a powerful reminder that scalable success starts with trust.

Carmen opens up about hiring her first VA while her business was still pre-revenue—a leap of faith as a single mother with two children and a mortgage. That decision forced her to rethink everything she knew about control, clarity, and capacity. Along the way, she learned that effective delegation isn’t about dumping tasks—it’s about building relationships, empowering others, and letting go of perfectionism.

Together they explore common outsourcing mistakes, how to choose the right first hire, and why your systems don’t need to be perfect before you start. Carmen also shares practical frameworks, like her “two-message rule,” and why opportunity cost is the real risk of doing everything yourself.

If you’ve ever felt stuck in the weeds of your own business—or unsure how to grow without burning out—this episode is packed with clarity, courage, and the mindset shifts needed to finally delegate with confidence.

In this episode, I cover: 

14:15 Offshoring vs Outsourcing Explained

18:20 Where to Start with Virtual Assistants

24:30 Managing Remote Teams Effectively

31:10 Delegating Better for Business Growth

35:00 Scaling Your Business with VAs

43:19 Personal Experiences and Lessons Learned

And more…

Leading a PMO through complexity, culture, and change? Tune in to explore how human-centered strategy and systems thinking can elevate your impact. Then, share how you're bridging the gap between strategy and execution—I’d love to hear your Agile Ideas. 

Chapters

• 0:00 Introducing Carmen Williams
• 9:00 Virtual Assistants Explained
• 14:15 Offshoring vs Outsourcing Clarified
• 18:20 Where to Start with Virtual Assistants
• 24:30 Managing Remote Teams Effectively
• 31:10 Delegating Better for Business Growth
• 35:00 Scaling Your Business with VAs

Transcript

SPEAKER_00: 0:00

You're listening to Agile Ideas, the podcast hosted by Fatima Rabouchi. For anyone listening out there not having a good day, please know there is help out there. On to today's guest. We're doing something a little bit different today. I have a little bit of a different guest. And also the reason for that is I thought it would be good to deep dive into a particular topic, something that early on in my business career definitely caught me unstuck. and that is all things relating to outsourcing, virtual assistance in small business, scaling, automation, delegation, leadership, and a number of other things. So on today's episode, our guest is Carmen Williams, who's the Director of Global Teams. Her career started in science before she transitioned into leading large-scale enterprise changes in the healthcare sector. Along the way, she discovered the power of delegation a game changer that transformed her business when she hired her first virtual assistant. That experience inspired her to create global teams where she helps businesses scale by connecting them with skilled remote professionals from countries like South Africa and the Philippines. Now she leads a team of over 90 virtual assistants and she's passionate about making outsourcing simple, effective and to become a key driver of sustainable business growth. So please join me in welcoming Carmen to the show. Carmen thank you so much for joining us today.

SPEAKER_01: 1:34

Absolute

SPEAKER_00: 1:35

pleasure. I have been following your journey for a while you might not know this but I recall you reaching out probably early on in your journey of your current business and I think you at the time had like just started and you were sort of you know scoping out services and sorry services sales and we were talking and you just kept kind of appearing in my LinkedIn feed. And then I thought, let's talk because you have a lot of knowledge and insights that I think will be really valuable today. So before we get into that, tell us a little bit about your background and sort of how you got to where you are today.

SPEAKER_01: 2:13

Yeah, I've got a roundabout background. I started my professional career as a scientist and then decided that the lab was a little bit boring. I wanted to go talk to people because that was a bit scary. And then I landed myself a job in a large healthcare network. I was just doing admin but within three months the project manager there left and I was implementing an enterprise-wide project so I did that for about 10 years strategy lots of fun stuff there until I'm like hmm I want to do something different I thought business was going to be easy now that's a joke isn't it um so I just walked um decided to leave work one day um so I started doing consulting and then I'm like oh well that's sort of good but I'm still doing the doing and so then I started growing my own virtual assistant team and then that's when people started saying hey Carmen I've tried it before and it didn't work could you help me and I'm like nah there's not what to do and then more people ask and I'm like hang on there's something here

SPEAKER_00: 3:13

and so

SPEAKER_01: 3:14

now we've got a team of over 100 in the Philippines and South Africa

SPEAKER_00: 3:18

amazing it's interesting because I would definitely be one of those people that I may have at a time said it didn't work for me either so I definitely want to get into all of that so interesting so going from science than corporate. And like I said, admin, which is obviously a key part of, I'm sure a lot of the virtual assistance community does. How did you, just going back to going from admin to then running this enterprise-wide project, how did you pick up the skills that you needed? Like what support did you get back then? How did you find that information?

SPEAKER_01: 3:51

So it was a baptism of fire. I would be lying to say that there weren't tears in the process, but it's just a really interesting environment. So I was working in a team and that project manager just disappeared. Like I don't know what happened to him. He just didn't rock up. And there was this space to fill. And I'm the sort of person who will go, all right, I'll fill that. Let me give it. And so I just ask a lot of questions. And so, yeah, people were very patient with me. I just asked lots of questions to lots of people and I didn't know what I didn't know. And so I was stumbling in the darkness for a little bit until I started to find my way. It was only later that I actually did a formal project management course before that I was just making everything up which is how I've run

SPEAKER_00: 4:34

my life pretty much it's interesting because sometimes having not having the experience or background people are a little bit more forgiving so I think that would have helped as well so it's good I think sharing that is helpful because there are people that are listening there probably I know I get a lot of questions often about where do I get started in projects or I don't have enough subject matter expertise where would I start and I think that just helps helping people to understand to just give it a go. So I appreciate that. You said VA. Now, not everyone knows what VA is. Can you just explain to us what is a VA and how are they essential for businesses?

SPEAKER_01: 5:12

So it's a good question. It's a problematic term because virtual assistant can mean a variety of things. So it can mean an AI technology solution that's got nothing to do with people. And then sometimes virtual assistants, when people do think of people, they think of people And like I mentioned, I had an admin role, but just doing admin and things like that. But what I mean when I use the term virtual assistant is a super intelligent, dedicated person who just happens to be, in my case, in the Philippines or South Africa, who is a team member in your business. So, yeah, they can do admin. Yeah, they can do social media. But I've also got an account manager from South Africa and sales people from South Africa and, you know, a bookkeeper from the Philippines. And like I've There's an amazing variety of roles that you can fill from people who are based in other countries.

SPEAKER_00: 6:06

And so a lot of the time when people think about having someone offshore assisting them, they often might confuse offshore versus outsourcing. Like companies do outsourcing. Sometimes the outsourcing is local. Sometimes it's remote. What's the difference between offshoring and outsourcing?

SPEAKER_01: 6:26

When I think of the term outsourcing, I think of people just going this problem that's just over there now come back to me with a solution and so for example you might say I want to hire a marketing company to manage my Facebook ads that is outsourcing to a marketing company with virtual assistants it's not like that like to get your the value from it for your business what I find is that you do need that relationship your team member needs the context of your business they need to grow with you and And so that's why I don't usually use the term outsourcing. I even think the term offshore, I mean, all the terms are problematic, aren't they? Even offshoring, people often think, oh, I'm going to move these jobs from Australia to overseas. And that's not what I see. I see two types of business owners coming to me. One, the mini business owner who's like, I couldn't possibly hire someone in Australia, but I might be able to hire a halftime person in the Philippines. And then I get like a business owner I spoke to the other day. He's got six businesses he's like i've tried to fill this role in australia twice carmen it hasn't worked can you get me someone Okay,

SPEAKER_00: 7:37

and so thinking about the fact that VA can be more than just an admin resource, you talk a bit about VAs being a partner, so being in partnership with a VA. Where do you get started if you are trying to think about bringing someone into your business, no matter the size of your business?

SPEAKER_01: 7:59

Yeah, so I think the first thing is to work out what sort of support that you need in your business, which is easier said than done. We've got some free resources on our website for anyone who wants to check those out to help them on that journey. But I'll give you a hint. The first virtual assistant most business owners need is not the creative, initiative, coming out their eyeballs, genius, dynamic person. It's not that. It's usually the detail-orientated doer, the person who will send you LinkedIn connections every day while you're off streaming about bright and shiny things. The person who will send Fat Mia messages so she doesn't forget you on LinkedIn, you know, that consistent doer. So then you can go off and, you know, do cool things like speak on podcasts.

SPEAKER_00: 8:51

And then thinking about the whole idea of having teams and people overseas, what are some of the things that you would start with getting someone who is a virtual assistant to do for you in your business? What are the sort of the most common things?

SPEAKER_01: 9:08

Yeah. So most people start with either. It depends on the problem they're experiencing. So I think when people are new in their business, the problem is often lead gen. So they're just like, which is the reason I got my first virtual assistant. I'm like, I need someone to be working my LinkedIn profile so that I can be having more discussions and making more sales. And so that was my first virtual assistant. And so a lot of people come to me for that stuff. But then once you get all the sales then the problem people have is processing those sales. So the operations side of things. And so then people will come to me going, and obviously everyone's operations look slightly different, but someone will come and go, I need to increase my operational capability. So I'm not scared to make sales. I need someone to interact with the customers or send the docu sign or do all that stuff to increase the operational capacity. And then I find that the businesses go in another cycle where they're like, I've got my leads coming in, I've got my operations sorted. And then they're like, now I want to grow. And so then they're going, okay, well, we're not doing X, Y, Z in marketing. So let's start that.

SPEAKER_00: 10:21

And then thinking about those, so you've talked about both sides of it, which I think is really, really good because I think I agree with you at the beginning when we went through the journey of bringing in someone internally about 10, 12 years ago. It was originally on the lead side. That being said, I know that there are probably people out there like me who have attempted to bring in a virtual assistant and probably have some horror stories to share. Ours didn't go very well the first time and then other times it went okay what do you say to people that are i guess nervous about bringing in someone who effectively is not i mean there's probably maybe the way to ask this is there's probably protocols or processes that you could put in place to protect the business owner because they are working with someone who's virtual which is you know not bound by the same i guess laws and things that we would have here so what sort of protections can i as an individual business owner put in place to protect me from any issues with any virtual assistant.

SPEAKER_01: 11:24

Yeah. So I guess I'd like to just preface it with, I'm not a lawyer. But I think for me in my business, it was about forming really trusting relationships. So at the start, my team didn't have access to everything. Now my team got access to everything. Like I wrote to one team member this morning saying, could you remind me about my password for this? And, you know, someone, could you buy this on my credit card? And But that didn't happen on day one. So most business owners have confidentiality agreements with their virtual assistants. They often share passwords and access via password management software like LastPass or OnePass. But I find that that's often a concern going into virtual assistants. But I think the thing people should really be thinking about when they get a virtual assistant is about setting it up for success. So how am I going to communicate? with them? How frequently? What methods? How am I going to download what's in my brain? How am I going to make sure they're not feeling overwhelmed and run away in the first couple of weeks? How am I going to make sure that they feel loved and supported? How am I going to get value? Let's start delegating the low risk, high volume tasks first. And so they're the things that I think are the really critical things to think of before your virtual assistant starts.

SPEAKER_00: 12:49

And I guess it's probably the homework that it business owner should be doing early on and if they're not they're not setting themselves up for success so it's sort of on us if we don't do that that homework up front

SPEAKER_01: 12:59

and obviously people don't know what they don't know so sometimes i'll have a conversation with someone who's interested in getting a virtual assistant and i'll ask them some questions and they're and they're like no i'm not willing to put that time and energy in and like i paint a picture and then i'm like right well you're not you it's not going to work for you like it's it's not a good fit and then but others were like oh cool i didn't realize that yeah this is how I'm going to do it so it's good to know if people are it takes time and energy to get it working really well which is ironic because you're usually getting virtual assistants to save time and energy but I like to set it up so that within the first two weeks you're feeling relief

SPEAKER_00: 13:38

and then so at what stage of business would you say someone should be where they start thinking about potentially bringing in a VA is there a sort of trigger or a sign that you would look for what would you recommend?

SPEAKER_01: 13:52

There's a couple of different ways to answer it. One that I sometimes do when I'm running an event is I say, who's got a cleaner? And I get people to put their hands up and I'm like, all right, everyone else get a cleaner before you get a virtual assistant. Like I just think, you know, this isn't just about getting virtual assistant. This is about you getting support as a business owner in your life and your business. And like, I think that's very low hanging fruit. So that's one way of looking at it. But then another way is, you know, some people like, oh, I'm going to wait until I've got X, Y, Z in place. I got my first virtual assistant when I was pre-revenue, which is a bit scary. Like I had a certain bucket of money. Like it was burning through it. Single mom, two kids mortgage. Like it, you know, I had this burning platform, but for me, I knew that I needed that. So I think another way to answer it is that it's really about when you have tasks that you think are low risk, high volume that someone else can do.

SPEAKER_00: 14:51

Hmm. I attended some conferences or I attended, and you probably heard this term before, but they refer to a certain monetary value. Estimate what you think your hourly rate is, whether it's$10,$100, whatever, and think anything less than that outsource. Is that something you would approach as well?

SPEAKER_01: 15:11

You can, but like you come up with the same answer, almost everything. So the other way I look at it, like obviously I've now got a team, but I go, if I am not having conversations with cool people, like you um if i'm not dreaming up strategic new ideas about oh let's target this market and this is our new you know marketing strategy um and i also still have the sales conversations um the the edgy sales conversations in my business if i'm not doing those things then someone else should be doing it yeah so i also flip it on the head it's like i'm very precious over what i spend my time and energy doing

SPEAKER_00: 15:47

yeah makes sense especially like you said so you've got over 100 i i I presume that's across a broad range of clients, but you've also got several resources that you have managed offshore for yourself. When are you managing a remote team? It obviously will come with its own challenges. Can you give us a couple of examples of challenges and how you put systems or habits in place to actually resolve for those challenges?

SPEAKER_01: 16:12

Yeah. So my marketing manager, he's actually moved to Canada now, so he has left me. Most of my team has stayed with me. But he worked with me for many years and he, him and I really vibed. We met multiple times a week and it just really worked. But then there was like, maybe I was on a holiday or someone was sick or there was a public holiday and we didn't meet for two weeks and we're just messaging each other. And I could just tell we're getting like grumpy with each other. And I'm like, all right, we just need to engineer this call. And so when people rely on messaging too much, I think that's really problematic. So I think there is value in getting on a call and building that relationship and having that chat. So that's one thing that I really advocate in my team. Another thing that I think is underutilized by a lot of business owners is they feel that they need to type out every instruction, whereas I'm often now voice messaging my team going, hey, guess what? I just had this idea. Could you set this up and then send this to me? And it just makes it so much easier. Another thing that we have we've got a rule in our business called the two message rule. So if I message you, you ask me a question, I answer it. You ask me another question. We just go, let's just jump on a call. Like sometimes it's literally two minutes. Yeah. That two minutes can save many back and forth and misunderstandings. And then I think people underestimate how much people just need to feel loved and connected. So we have a meeting every fortnight of our internal team and we play games and tell stories and each person leads each different fortnight. And the only purpose of that half an hour is to connect to each other. There's no other purpose. There's no agenda items. There's no business. It's just to connect.

SPEAKER_00: 18:02

I love that. I think it's important. People probably think that, you know, out of sight, out of mind. But when you've got someone who's a virtual team member, I know when we had our virtual assistant at the beginning of my business journey about 12, 13 years ago, she had some personal circumstances that meant she had sick family members and all these things and we had to be really flexible to support her in that time but we wouldn't have known if we didn't take the time to actually learn more about them how do you manage for that when you've got obviously as a small business owner you bring in one VA how do I mitigate knowing that there is going to be things that probably come about do you suggest I have multiple at the same time or split the work across or have a team of VAs as opposed to an individual what would you recommend to a client in that regard?

SPEAKER_01: 18:53

Yeah. So obviously when you're getting started, you usually start with one virtual assistant. Sometimes business owners come to me and they want to start with more than one. And that's okay if they've got the resources within their team, like they've already got multiple team members to be able to support those virtual assistants. But 90% of people start with one. So when you've got one, you don't have the redundancy in it. And so when I started, I didn't have redundancy within my team. I've now got 11 team members that work within team and some people work across teams. And so what that means is that almost all of the work that happens in my business can be done by more than one person. So most of the staff can get done even if someone's on leave. Now, obviously, that's not where I started, but that's something that I've developed over time. And so like I sat down with my marketing team a few years ago and said this is what I want to achieve. Like I need two people being able to do every single function in the marketing team.

SPEAKER_00: 19:50

And

SPEAKER_01: 19:51

so I've worked with each of the teams on that.

SPEAKER_00: 19:54

I think that's good. I think that more organisations even day-to-day, regardless of where their team is, should be doing that. Unfortunately, we're not. But, yeah, I think that's a really good idea. And I think by doing that it means that, yeah, like you said, you're putting in that redundancy in place. Would a suggestion potentially be helpful for a business owner who just starts with one maybe to document everything or like to what level of detail to support them in having, I guess, the backup in case they have any issues i know that that was helpful for us is that something you'd recommend as well

SPEAKER_01: 20:26

yeah so sometimes people could say oh i can't start with a virtual assistant because i haven't documented everything yes now i'm a procedure lover um i one of my projects was implemented implementing procedure framework with 300 procedures um but saying that i also understand the realities of small business and so you often don't have your i's dot and t's cross so to start with a virtual assistant you need enough of a process sorted and that could be something you put together the night before they start just on like one or two items but then once your virtual assistant's in place you can then say hey could you document that hey let me take you through on a zoom call you can record it and then once you've got the handle of it could you document it so there there is some support within the business if someone else needs to fill that spot

SPEAKER_00: 21:19

and how do you kind coach or guide clients to let go? Because it's very daunting to bring anyone into your team for the first time, regardless of where you are in your business journey. So how do you guide them to let go? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 21:34

So I guess I suss people out before they become clients to go, are you willing to do what it takes? Which includes feeling uncomfortable. You don't need to be perfect. I'll hold your hand if you're scared. Like that's what we do. But you need to be willing to feel uncomfortable. We'll guide you so you can mitigate against any risk or all that stuff. But are you willing? If they are, then we can make it work. And so then we metaphorically hold their hand and support them with processes and frameworks because each person and VA combo will have different frameworks on how they communicate and how they delegate. And so we'll work with them to set up a system that works for them.

SPEAKER_00: 22:25

And do you think that there is a particular mindset shift that a business owner needs to mirror? So they've got to let, to let go, they need to accept that it is discomfort. Is there anything else that holds them back? Is there a fear factor? Is it, you know, being out of practice? Is it really not being, what do you think stops them from sort of overcoming that first hurdle? I think

SPEAKER_01: 22:50

it's not understanding the cost of not doing it. So in my mind, I learned really quickly in business that the cost for me of not getting a virtual assistant was one, I probably couldn't pay my mortgage for much longer because like, you know, business was slower to start than I thought. Two, I was going to be stuck doing all the detail and not working on all the bright and shiny things, which is how my mind likes to work. And so sometimes when I share with people about, well, maybe it's okay, maybe there are some things in your business where it's okay if they do it to aid percent like maybe they don't have to be as good as you at all things some things maybe you're not going to hand over maybe they're not going to do the whole process maybe it's just part of the process and then you're going to do part and then they're going to do the rest of it so it's about how to mitigate um the impact of someone not being you so that your business can still have really good outcomes but you don't have to be doing it

SPEAKER_00: 23:48

all and so then as a leader that means delegating better and how do we as leaders delegate delegate better what what i don't think i've really seen much out there that sort of says this is a delegation course and that's one of probably the core skills a leader a good leader needs so how do we delegate better

SPEAKER_01: 24:08

yeah i mean that's a huge topic isn't it um but i'll give you an example so at the start i oh even now i'm not a creative person i don't know how to delegate creative stuff but at the start i would say could you create me a cover photo for my podcast and then produce something I'm like I don't like it and then I couldn't even tell them what I liked and what I didn't like so then I just started saying could you create three for me and they'll be like I like a bit of that and a bit of that and we'd go through iterations and so it's about finding finding those ways another example is I think people are very quick to delegate without rolling up the sleeves and doing a little bit themselves so for example when I got my first virtual assistant to help me with LinkedIn marketing I did it myself for a week and I learned what I needed to know to be able to be really effective in my delegation if I just said to her get me leads on LinkedIn like that just wouldn't have worked and so I really feel strongly about that there's most functions in your business like you get deep within the weeds for even if sometimes it's just a day and then you're like oh cool all right now over to you

SPEAKER_00: 25:17

do you think that um that every thing that you delegate you need to understand how to do it or to a level just so that you can have some oversight? Yeah, so it's a really

SPEAKER_01: 25:27

good question. So generally, because I like to learn, I do know most of what I'm delegating, but there are some technical SEO things where I don't. So my marketing manager said to me, Carmen, just do this SEO course so you know the lingo and the frameworks. So just before this meeting, I met with one of my team members around SEO and she knows more than me about it. But I was able to follow along just because I'd done the course and I understood the larger frameworks and she was able to explain things to me. So that's an example in my business where I'm not as savvy with it as she is. But like with, for example, my LinkedIn marketing or how my account management or things like that, like that stuff, I'm like completely over.

SPEAKER_00: 26:22

Yeah, I guess you've got to have a balance. You you can't know everything but at the same time how you assure it's like it like probably back in our corporate days you can't assure that someone's doing the right thing if you haven't given them the right instructions are delegated well but also have some understanding of what the outcome is supposed to be so i guess having an insight will help

SPEAKER_01: 26:42

well that's like with the design stuff i don't know how to use canva like i've tried before it just is not good um so i don't know how to do the stuff that they're doing but i i am having oversight in to this is how I like this design. So we're just starting this new business. So we've got a global teams brand, which is colorful and a bit silly. And then we've got another brand that we're just developing. And so I will have to be really firm around. We're not doing the X, Y, Z that we do in global teams. We're doing it like this for this new brand. And so that's been really interesting. So I've got oversight over that. I don't know how to do the canvas stuff, but my team are implementing my vision if you want.

SPEAKER_00: 27:23

Yeah, absolutely. And that's what they should be doing. really. So then speaking of, I can see you're scaling up and scaling out. So how do you, how does a business owner start to scale or use outsourcing to scale and grow their business? And if you had to advise what systems or technology or where they would start, what would be the core capability areas that you would recommend they focus on when they're trying to scale their business?

SPEAKER_01: 27:52

Yeah, I think around scaling, it sort of depends on where your business is at. So I've and what problems you're facing. So, you know, if you're an established business, you might be facing problems with operational capacity. And so a lot of people are coming to me. They've already got teams in Australia and they need that. They say, I want to support my customer service team or want to support my sales team. And it's not even about getting people for them necessarily, but it's getting people for their teams to increase the capacity within the team. Then there's the I want someone to help me do my marketing i've heard this story so often i've been in business for 20 years we've been really successful but i've never marketed and now i've decided i want to do it because you know there's a missed opportunity there and so that's also another common thing that i see around scaling

SPEAKER_00: 28:40

it's so interesting because i do agree i think marketing is the most common aside from sales but like you said earlier um i think most business owners like us are able to talk about passionately about what we do but marketing um can sometimes fall by the ways I know that that was where we started to get help initially. And then on the operational side, like you said, as you're scaling and you've got all of these processes. But as I said, there's lots of pros and cons of how you go about it. So it's good that there's some information out there, which I'll definitely share too in our website. I'm keen to understand what's next for Global Teams, your organization, and how do people learn more about everything that you've talked about today? Yeah,

SPEAKER_01: 29:22

cool. So yeah, so we're continuing to... our teams both in the Philippines and South Africa. South Africa is something we've been doing for about a year and so there's heaps of opportunities there. And we're also starting to develop some niche brands as well, which requires different marketing strategies, which I'm finding quite fun. If people want to learn more about virtual assistants, how to work with them, how to communicate with them, what they can do, they can go check out our website at globalteams.com.au.

SPEAKER_00: 29:52

Awesome. I'll make sure I link into that. We're almost at the end of our time today. My last question today, Carmen, is if there's anything else you'd like to share with our listeners, a call to action, a piece of advice, or a question to ponder today.

SPEAKER_01: 30:06

Yeah. I think the question is what's the impact of not doing it?

UNKNOWN: 30:12

Hmm.

SPEAKER_00: 30:13

or the opportunity cost as we like to sometimes refer to in the corporate world. Yeah, absolutely. And I guess just conscious from my own knowledge, how do you measure that?

SPEAKER_01: 30:25

Yeah, it's a good question. It's often like a personal feeling. Like obviously you can measure it by going I earn X number of dollars an hour and like you can, but like I've never actually sat down and done that. But I just go for me, What do I want from my business? What do I want from my life? Could I achieve that if I didn't have virtual assistants? And for me, the answer is a no. So I have many business owners come to me. Some people go, I want to get my wife out of the admin so she can spend more time with the kids and it's going to be easier on the family and we're going to have more fun. I want to be able to actually take a holiday. I'm working 20-hour days. I'm burnt out. So people come to me and I with the story so I can give them the facts and the figures and the calculations but it's like what's going on for you in your world and are you going to achieve what you want can you have the impact in the world that you want to have with your business without doing this

SPEAKER_00: 31:26

thank you so much for listening to this podcast please share this with someone or rate it if you enjoyed it don't forget to follow us on social media and to stay up to date with all things agile ideas go to our website www.agilemanagementoffice.com Until next time, what's your agile idea?